Where to Go During an Earthquake

April 25th, 2011By Category: Uncategorized

On March 11th, I was sitting at my desk in Yokohama when the earthquake struck. I immediately ran to the front door and stationed myself there with the door open, believing that was a safe place to be. I wondered to myself what would happen if the ceiling above me collapsed. I found out a couple of weeks later that standing in the doorway was one of the last things I should have done.

A friend of mine in Los Angeles sent me an article by Doug Copp. I read it and was very surprised. I went to YouTube and watched videos and started checking around.

Yes, I found more websites that refuted Doug Copp’s “Triangle of Life” principles, but then again, everything is and always has been refuted and always will be. This just seems like common sense. I invite you to think and judge the information for yourself.

Personally, I am sold that he is right and that the “Duck and Cover” principle is horrifically incorrect and dangerous. I also found out that standing under a doorway or heading for the stairs were three of the last things one should do to survive in a collapsed building. I started asking my students what they would do and of course, everyone said that they would duck under the table.

Recently, I went to parents’ day at my daughter’s elementary school and a small earthquake happened. All of the children ducked under their desks. I cringed at the thought, because I remembered the poor children in Mexico who had all been “crushed to the thickness of their bones” under their desks from the weight of the floors and ceiling above them. That lit a fire under me. I got on the Net and copied this document, got it translated and started going to the local shops in my neighborhood and passing out the information that I had.

Everyone was very surprised, but they also agreed that it made no sense to go under a table or a desk and that the idea of the “Triangle of Life” made perfect sense. I kept hearing people say, “This seems to be such common sense. Why didn’t I ever notice it?” All of the shop owners have agreed to give their customers this information or to at least post it on their walls for interested customers to read. You can read the article below:

(The Triangle of Life)

Remember that stuff about hiding under a table or standing in a doorway? Well, forget it! This is a real eye opener. My name is Doug Copp. I am the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of the American Rescue Team International (ARTI), the world’s most experienced rescue team. The information in this article will save lives in an earthquake. I have crawled inside 875 collapsed buildings, worked with rescue teams from 60 countries, founded rescue teams in several countries, and I am a member of many rescue teams from many countries. I was the United Nations expert in Disaster Mitigation for two years, and have worked at every major disaster in the world since 1985, except for simultaneous disasters.

The first building I ever crawled inside of was a school in Mexico City during the 1985 earthquake. Every child was under its desk. Every child was crushed to the thickness of their bones. They could have survived by lying down next to their desks in the aisles. It was obscene — unnecessary. Simply stated, when buildings collapse, the weight of the ceilings falling upon the objects or furniture inside crushes these objects, leaving a space or void next to them – NOT under them. This space is what I call the ‘triangle of life’. The larger the object, the stronger, the less it will compact. The less the object compacts, the larger the void, the greater the probability that the person who is using this void for safety will not be injured. The next time you watch collapsed buildings, on television, count the ‘triangles’ you see formed. They are everywhere. It is the most common shape, you will see, in a collapsed building.

TIPS FOR EARTHQUAKE SAFETY!!!

1) Most everyone who simply ‘ducks and covers’ when buildings collapse are crushed to death. People who get under objects, like desks or cars, are crushed.

2) Cats, dogs and babies often naturally curl up in the fetal position. You should too in an earthquake. It is a natural safety/survival instinct. You can survive in a smaller void. Get next to an object, next to a sofa, next to a bed, next to a large bulky object that will compress slightly but leave a void next to it.

3) Wooden buildings are the safest type of construction to be in during an earthquake. Wood is flexible and moves with the force of the earthquake. If the wooden building does collapse, large survival voids are created. Also, the wooden building has less concentrated, crushing weight. Brick buildings will break into individual bricks. Bricks will cause many injuries but less squashed bodies than concrete slabs.

4) If you are in bed during the night and an earthquake occurs, simply roll off the bed. A safe void will exist around the bed. Hotels can achieve a much greater survival rate in earthquakes, simply by posting a sign on the back of the door of every room telling occupants to lie down on the floor, next to the bottom of the bed during an earthquake.

5) If an earthquake happens and you cannot easily escape by getting out the door or window, then lie down and curl up in the fetal position next to a sofa, or large chair.

6) Most everyone who gets under a doorway when buildings collapse is killed. How? If you stand under a doorway and the door jamb falls forward or backward you will be crushed by the ceiling above. If the door jam falls sideways you will be cut in half by the doorway. In either case, you will be killed!

7) Never go to the stairs. The stairs have a different ‘moment of frequency’ (they swing separately from the main part of the building). The stairs and remainder of the building continuously bump into each other until structural failure of the stairs takes place. The people who get on stairs before they fail are chopped up by the stair treads – horribly mutilated. Even if the building doesn’t collapse, stay away from the stairs. The stairs are a likely part of the building to be damaged. Even if the stairs are not collapsed by the earthquake, they may collapse later when overloaded by fleeing people. They should always be checked for safety, even when the rest of the building is not damaged.

8) Get near the outer walls of buildings or outside of them if possible – It is much better to be near the outside of the building rather than the interior. The farther inside you are from the outside perimeter of the building the greater the probability that your escape route will be blocked.

9) People inside of their vehicles are crushed when the road above falls in an earthquake and crushes their vehicles; which is exactly what happened with the slabs between the decks of the Nimitz Freeway. The victims of the San Francisco earthquake all stayed inside of their vehicles. They were all killed. They could have easily survived by getting out and sitting or lying next to their vehicles. Everyone killed would have survived if they had been able to get out of their cars and sit or lie next to them. All the crushed cars had voids 3 feet high next to them, except for the cars that had columns fall directly across them.

10) I discovered, while crawling inside of collapsed newspaper offices and other offices with a lot of paper, that paper does not compact. Large voids are found surrounding stacks of paper. The entire world is experiencing natural calamities so be prepared! ‘We are but angels with one wing, it takes two to fly’

In 1996 we made a film, which proved my survival methodology to be correct. The Turkish Federal Government, City of Istanbul, University of Istanbul Case Productions and ARTI cooperated to film this practical, scientific test. We collapsed a school and a home with 20 mannequins inside. Ten mannequins did ‘duck and cover,’ and ten mannequins I used in my ‘triangle of life’ survival method. After the simulated earthquake collapse we crawled through the rubble and entered the building to film and document the results. The film, in which I practiced my survival techniques under directly observable, scientific conditions, relevant to building collapse, showed there would have been zero percent survival for those doing duck and cover.

I hope that you never need to use this information. But it is better to be prepared than not, right? Japan is not a dangerous country and will recover from this. I know a lot of people are and have gone back to their hometowns and, or countries, but for those of us who are here for the long haul, the best we can do I believe, is to follow the “Triangle of Life” guidelines.

They make much more sense than ducking under tables and desks that will be compacted by the weight of the ceiling and floors above us. The “Duck and Cover” idea is to protect you from falling objects. But most objects that are going to fall on you are not necessarily going to kill you.

They will injure you, maybe even seriously, but the floors and the ceiling above you will do the utmost worst to you and your loved ones, because of the crushing weight that cement can produce. A short, densely packed object will save you from the weight of cement if you can get down low enough. Not your refrigerator or bookcase, but your bed, desk, or piano even. Lying on your side next to such an object will give you much more space to survive the “crush” than squatting under a table or desk that will compact enough to crush you if you are under it, but not compact enough to let you be crushed by what is above it. We did a test. The average adult female sitting on the ground with her head bowed will be approximately 65 centimeters tall but lying down on her side will be only around 33 centimeters high. That is almost half! A child of course, will have more of a chance, going from 58 centimeters to a mere 22. You do the math.

Should you get down as low as you can to avoid being crushed or get under an object and hope that your height and the object of which you are under, does not work against you? You may actually be part of the system that assists in stopping gravity from coming down further, but you will not be able to know about it. You be the judge. Be part of the system that stops gravity or live! Furthermore, even when you are outside or walking through the station, I want to encourage you to find places that have short, densely packed objects that you can lie down next to, that will protect you from the “crush” when an earthquake strikes. Stay educated and be prepared. Of course, I would not advocate lying down on the ground next to an object of which was located near a piece of furniture that had a TV, books or dishes on top of it that would fall on top of you, but that is just common sense. If one does such a thing, of course the result could be quite dangerous. Hopefully, none of us will need to use this very important information. As for me, I will not be ducking under the table and begging that the table holds up anymore and seeing stars when it doesn’t. I will be looking for another shape: A potential triangle. If you agree with this information please pass it on to as many people as possible. You may save a life.

 

Author of this article

Eric Carroll

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  • Noel

    Interesting article but I wonder how relevant this is to Japan where the majority of buildings are built to withstand fairly large earthquakes. When an earthquake starts it is difficult to know whether it will be the one that topples your building or the one that will drop a piece of glass or segment of ceiling on your head. Is it really better to not get under a table and risk injury (potentially serious) from falling objects in 99% of major earthquakes when only 1% (or less) will actually collapse the building you are in.

    To me this sounds the same as saying “don’t buckle your seatbelt on a plane to protect against turbulence but spend the whole flight in the structurally safest part of the plane in case it crashes”

    The Japanese government should probably issue more specific guidance on this.

  • John

    Take both precautions:Don’t get under a desk or a table and don’t get near objects that are going to fall on your head. The most important thing is to know your surrounding and where there are potential safe spots. main building that were deemed as safe in Kobe did collapse and there were people who did die because they were in the wrong places.

  • JOhn

    I meant “Many”, Not “Main”.

  • Charles

    All of this neglects basic assumptions in the triangle of life theory that are easily shown to be FALSE. Look at this page, which lays it all out: http://www.earthquakecountry.org/dropcoverholdon. You are endangering people with your speculation, and have been fooled by a charlatan who lies about his experience and expertise.

  • Charles

    http://www.earthquakecountry.org/dropcoverholdon is the address (this form added the period at the end of the sentence to the link, duh)

  • Nihonde sodattemashta

    There are a number of problems with your premise: #1. The Mexico City Earthquake took place at 7:19 am, well before school began. #2. Children in Mexico were not taught “drop, cover and hold on”. #3. The then-mayor of Mexico City says there were no deaths of any children in schools to his knowledge. Do some research on “mythologia” then it will all make sense. By the way, there was no “scientific research” in Turkey, either.

  • Janet

    Charles. I went to your suggested website. Reality check: J Not one bit of proof even offered up. Just a bunch of, “He said, she said stuff”. Not one shred of evidence was given.

  • Eric

    Actually, I think that people who just go on by what people say instead of thinking for themselves are the ones who are endangering the lives of others, Charles. Seems to me that you are just following what some people say. Have they shown you any proof? Not really. Has Doug Coop? Nope. The more people debate the more chances we have of protecting people. Duck and cover or triangle. Who knows? Think for yourself. I only offered an idea, that I feel good about. Maybe the guy is a bit of a character with some issues. But that does not mean that we should discount the principals involved at all.

    Look at the hypocrisy. If you have time to find a table or a desk and then get yourself under it with all of the bouncing around that an earthquake produces than you than you have time to find a safe spot near a thick object that is away from things that are going to fall on you. The funny thing is that they say you don’t have enough time to find a good spot, but adequate enough time to just duck under a table. Which is it? You can’t have it both ways. I am sure that you are familiar with where the table is when you are in a room and where a short thick object is as well. They say you can’t control where you go during an earthquake, but get under a table! Maybe his claims are dubious, but some of theirs are, too.

    “Nihonde” their was an experiment in Turkey. The building was actually demolished. An article I read is snoopes disputes Coop’s claim very much because it was a demolished building which is different from what would happen in an earthquake. However, even they admit that the mannequins were not injured. Hmmmm.

    I have looked at the same websites and even there are many times when I have seen that they have been less than forthright as well. For example, he says to sit or lie next to your car. Well, lying wouldn’t be the best idea and even I can admit that. Why not sit or at least crouch down? I have read where they have said that he has said to get out of your car in an earthquake and lie down. Once again that is not entirely what he said. Scroll back to the top and you will see what he said. He was talking about when you are under a highway or something like that. Think about it? Would you like to be in the car when the highway above you falls or next to it? It is most likely not going to squash the car completely but it will compact just like a desk or anything else. But if you are in it, that is what will happen when it falls on the roof of the car. I would rather get out of the car and be near it, than in it, when it falls.

    Yes, you can find so many people who are against this and I stated that. But, what I am asking you to do is to think for yourself. If you agree with it. Pass it on. If not, than don’t. Look at the principals involved though. I think that an earthquake in California is going to be much different than here in Japan. Yes, people were saved by the duck and cover in California, but there weren’t that many collapsed buildings there, were there? I believe there were quite a few in Kobe though.

    I am talking about collapsed buildings. Let’s get that clear. Think about these questions;

    Do you think your desk will not compact you into the floor when the full weight of a whole concrete building comes down on top of it while you are squatted below it only a few centimeters from the bottom of the desk?? If so will a table do the same thing or make a part of the floor?

    Would you be safer being the smallest you can be facing an object that is densely packed so that you are not compacted? (As I have said before you take up less space laying on your side than in the squat or sitting position, which seems to indicate you would have less of a chance of being squashed since you are smaller in that position.)

    Will you be protected if you are laying next to a densely packed object or will the ceiling break apart in a perfect line at the edge of it and continue it’s force down on top of you or perhaps be deflected from actually coming down and squashing you in that small space?

    Is it a good idea to stay in the car during an earthquake when you are under a highway, or to crouch down next to the car somewhere around the tires?

    I don’t feel I am endangering anyone’s life. I feel that not exploring an avenue is actually what is more dangerous than anything. The very worst thing that we can do is go to sites and make up our minds because of what someone else has said. Forget what Doug Coops says. Forgot what the other side says as well. Think about those questions for yourself.

    Try to stay away from objects that are going to fall on you is common sense. Do you have to get under a table to make sure that does not happen? No. Get away from that place. And then find a good place that will support the weight of the ceiling and anything else that comes down. Get under that object, if you will. Not me.

  • Okay
  • Shaken, but not stirred!

    a) 60 seconds of googling shows Mr. Doug Copp to be the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of American Rescue Team International. This sounds impressive… but it appears ARTI seems to be a a private company not affiliated with the U.S. Government or any other agency. Hence, perhaps a bit of self-promotion?

    b) As an engineer myself, Doug’s claims are not illogical. However, advice needs to be given for the region one is in. Japan and the US building structures and codes are significantly different than Mexico, thus buildings have a much higher degree of stability. This means the risks to occupants are more likely to be from falling lights, fittings or pieces of ceiling, rather than a pancaking of a concrete building. Thus, my view is that Doug’s advice is generalist and, for my money, dangerous.

    EVIDENCE! – I live in Japan and I went through the March 11th earthquake (at work) as did my wife (at home) and 2 kids (at different schools)… I have also gone through the multiple aftershocks. Let’s look at this REAL evidence shall we?… Probably in excess of 50 million people where struck (significantly) by the 5th largest quake since records began, yet with the exception of a handful of tragedies (not including the tsunami), buildings here retained their structural integrity… in fact, most show NO signs of damage at all. Even in Sendai where they were hit 3 times by >7 magnitude!! i.e. the risks were CLEARLY NOT from pancaking, the risks were from falling objects. Thus, Duck & Cover seems the more appropriate advice here.

    This is the downside of the internet… it gives dangerous myths and poorly-thought-through ideas, or poorly-applied-ideas, to be picked up by well-intentioned people and spread dangerously

  • Eric Carroll

    Go back Shaken and read what I wrote again.

    a) There is no need to be in a place where things are going to fall on you. Your first thought out to be to get out of that place and into a place where that is not going to happen. I thought I made that absolutely clear.

    b) Once one has done that, than it is really time to take care of the second issue, and that is the “crush”. (Pancake just sounds to nice) There is where the triangle comes into play. “Duck and cover” is just to protect against falling objects, and I already covered what to do. Like I said before if you get under a table when there is nothing but roof that is going to fall on you then you have the sad role of playing part of the mechanics that stops the roof from completely hitting the floor.

    c) No most building were not destroyed by the earthquake, or so we think. How would you know. Most of the building were destroyed by the tsunami, or so is thought. But once a building has come down and a tsunami has hit it. we don’t know which did the real damage. Building were washed away we don’t know if they were all standing or not.

    d) In Kobe many buildings actually did fall down and they were not supposed to. Why? Concrete!!! The situation up north was also very different though because a lot of the buildings were made of more flexible material, i.e., wood, metal but not too much concrete. They were more flexible than those in Kode which happened to be concrete built structures. Yes, you did see many of these building floating away but not one was made of concrete. There is a huge difference. Recognize and comprehend the difference, please.

    e) This is not the downside of the internet, or as you so elegantly put it, “it gives dangerous myths and poorly-thought-through ideas, or poorly-applied-ideas, to be picked up by well-intentioned people and spread dangerously”. Poorly thought though? How about poorly read?!?!?!?! The only danger I really see is people who also seem to have well-intentions silencing thought and debate. The real danger my friend is not debating ideas.

    f) The only thing I am trying to get into people’s heads is this: Why hide under a table? Get out of the room where there are many objects that will fall on you. That is common sense. Then look for the next danger. The roof or floors above you coming down! Find a short, densly packed object and lie down facing it. Get under a table? Why do you want to support the weight of what is above you? That is what I see as dangerous.

    g) 60 seconds googling? That is it? My, my, not that is poorly thought out. Not trying to offend. So, what if he calls his group “American Rescue Team International”? People do that stuff all the time and they have no affiliation with their governments, don’t they? Self Promotion? How? That is not promoting one’s self at all.

    h) No, his claims are not illogical. Thank you. But neither are mine.

    1. Get out of a room where things are going to fall on you. (common sense)
    2. Look for a short, densely packed object.
    3. Lie down facing it. (You might be able to control some of it’s movement by applying
    pressure to it. Lie down with your back towards it and it might land or bounce on top of
    you.
    4. That’s it. Eliminate objects from falling on you and from the ceiling and floors above you
    squashing you. Eliminate to the best of your ability both problems.
    5. Don’t be under something. You may just be supporting whatever is above you.

  • Simon_on_tour2

    Eric – you are becoming evangelical-like about this! Your preaching is more based on your faith of one man’s opinion, rather than the science and research of so many engineers worldwide.

    Therefore, whilst it is obvious that I am wasting my time in trying to ‘talk’ to you, given your obvious zealot views on this, I will give a reply in the interests of providing some necessary balance for those who may read this…

    a) MORE BAD ADVICE… you state “There is no need to be in a place where things are going to fall on you “…I don’t believe you’ve ever been in an earthquake!… or you would know how crazy writing this is! Firstly, this advice makes no allowance for the ‘normal’ panic and confusion that sets in at the beginning… secondly, moving to any place during a serious quake is both difficult and VERY dangerous. I had enough trouble staying balanced whilst crouched during the initial quake, let alone move about. Not to mention, countless items, from all directions, fall; from books, to computers, to cabinet doors, to light bulbs, etc… NO ONE recommends trying to move about during a quake… and it is EXPLICITIY advised not to leave a building during a quake, since most injuries are caused by falling glass or stonework outside.

    b) Substituting in the word “Crush” is stereotypically sensationalist (childishly so) – come on, really! we all know what we mean! However, and as you still seem to fail to understand, in a modern building (like those of Japan), the risk of “crush”, or “pancake” is VERY low – however, the risk from falling objects (which one can’t simply stroll away from during the quake!), is much higher.

    c) “or so we think”… now you are sounding as desperate as the flat earth society or those who deny the holocaust!… I’ve got staff that live and work in Sendai… so I know! But, if you don’t believe me, you can also look at the countless hours of footage on YouTube (hopefully YouTube is considered free and uncensored enough by governments for you!) that clearly show all the buildings standing before the tsunami arrived. Not to mention, the tsunami did not hit all the coastal buildings, some were on higher ground; you might be surprised to know!

    Also, 95% of all the victims they’ve so far found were drowned… 3% crushed (most by items in the water) and 2% due to fire. If your theory (and it is only your theory!) was right… then it would be 95% crushed (or something like that).

    It never ceases to amaze me why it is that some people find it attractive to believe the preaching of one man (who may be seeking after-dinner speech bookings or consultancy work), rather than the multiple and consistent words of the countless ordinary men and women who dedicate their lives to this work, either as engineers designing and building the structures we live and work in, or who work for the Japanese/US seismic organisations, or even the American Red Cross!

    Why (a rhetorical question), do some people (this seems to include you) think that ALL these individuals are part of some vast conspiracy. In a world where a politician is quickly caught for expense irregularities, or a President is checked for his birth place, can anyone (you) imagine that 100’s of thousands of engineers (literally) the world over can ALL be misleading us about safety advice.

    d) Please do not tell me to “Recognize and comprehend the difference” when you do not know what you are talking about. You really, really, really, really need to do your research!… many of the structures in Kobe built since 1981 had been designed to strict seismic codes.

    Most of these buildings were undamaged. In particular, newly built ductile-frame high rise buildings were almost entirely undamaged.

    Buildings built before this (mostly wooden with clay tile roofs) were the ONLY buildings to suffer significant damage and, yes, some collapsed (didn’t you say wood was safest?).

    Unfortunately, many of the buildings in Kobe had been built before the development of strict seismic codes.

    The collapse of (mostly wooden) buildings was followed by the ignition of over 300 fires within minutes of the earthquake. The fires were caused by ruptured gas lines. Response to the fires was hindered by the failure of the water supply system and the disruption of the traffic system.

    i.e. again, your use of facts is, at best, economical and/or misguided.

    e) I stick to my original comment – you may be well-intentioned, but you are misapplying the advice. The “Triangle of Life” is bad advice in a great number of situations… e.g. in most cases here in Japan.

    f) and I’m trying to get it in your head… whilst there is always some risk of crush (mainly in non-seismic buildings), in a modern environment the greater risk (significantly, in comparison) is falling objects. Thus, why all those good men and women advise us to “duck and cover”!

    g) My simple point (though obviously not understood!) was that it is so easy to find information and FACTS. Thus, why have you not been able to?… it takes only a tiny amount of time to find good information, given there is so much on this subject… e.g. why didn’t you research the Kobe earthquake before using it to defend your argument?

    h) Merely repeating this again, does not make it any more relevant.

    I’m sure you mean well Eric, but I’m not blindly predisposed to “be different”. My opinion, and therefore my trust, is built from the advice of the many qualified engineers worldwide, the experiences I’ve had here in Japan, the evidence I have both seen and researched, plus my own engineering qualifications to make sense of it all.

    Therefore, as long as I am in a seismic building, I will not be following your preaching. I consider it dangerous to do so. You do what you wish, but please provide more balanced research before trying to influence others

  • Eric Carroll

    You write a good argument and somewhat condescending as well. But here are the facts. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories at all. But what I do believe in is going the extra mile. Something that your so-called “duck and cover” does not even begin to cover. Go ahead and get squashed. “Childish”? Please do much better. I have been called worse. Let me label you than! “Non-Reader”! Instead of reading what I wrote you just skimmed through it. Hey, I was in the earthquake too! What earthquake were you in? I was able to pick up the dog and get to the front door, which I now know was wrong. You seem to be nitpicking. I had time to get to the door. If I were up north were the earthquake happend I might not have had that time because it was stronger. But if you have time to find a table, you have time to find a place that will protect you from the roof caving in. Get off this “more people were killed by flying objects than were killed by cave ins”. You shouldn’t be there in the first place. Common sense!!!! Your system is protecting yourself from ONE DANGER. My idea is protecting against BOTH DANGERS. No, you didn’t do enough research into KOBE. Nope, because your information that you are spewing is erroneous. I did as I wrote in my initial letter. Hey, I had the cajones to put my name on the article. Why? Because I believe in the research that I did. I had no qualms with using my name at all, because what I was saying was as solid as a rock. You, “Shaken But Not Stirred” used something that is not your name?! Why? You say you are an engineer. How do I know that???????? I could have said the same thing. But I did I used my own name!!!! Because I believed in what I was saying to be common sense. These simply rules will help people.

    1. Get out of a room where things are going to fall on you. (common sense)
    2. Look for a short, densely packed object.
    3. Lie down facing it. (You might be able to control some of it’s movement by applying
    pressure to it. Lie down with your back towards it and it might land or bounce on top of
    you.
    4. That’s it. Eliminate objects from falling on you and from the ceiling and floors above you
    squashing you. Eliminate to the best of your ability both problems.
    5. Don’t be under something. You may just be supporting whatever is above you.

    There is nothing wrong with this advice. Eliminate both dangers. My belief in the system is just using COMMON SENSE. Not evangelical. You too could also be called evangelical because of your insistance to follow an idea that has been taught for so long. Yes, wood is safest, it is flexible. Unfortunately fire does create a problem. I am not arguing that. The reason that those people died was most likely because they were under a desk or a table or caught in a fire in Kobe. None dispute that. Yes, 95% of the people did drowned up north. But that is an extraordinary situation. They were living an extremely short distance from the water. Duh!

    And how hypocritical can YOU be? I am “as desperate as the flat earth society” Are you kidding me???? You are the one following age old doctrine and I am the one saying that the earth is not flat at all. Yikes. You talk about so many people saying the opposite of what I saying. Fine, so be it. I am thinking for myself. You are following. I agreed with the principal because of research and thinking for myself.

    “moving to any place during a serious quake is both difficult and VERY dangerous” This is what you said. But you STILL advise people to get under a table. You can’t have it both ways, man. You can’t. You just said that it is “difficult and very dangerous”! Ah-ha. Who is stepping on their own tongue here? It is not me. That is all you. You can’t have it both ways at all. Make up your mind, which is it?

    Do this. Follow what has been taught to you. Look to take care of one danger. I will be looking out for both dangers. Follow what you have been taught. But I will not be sharing the weight of the building with you. Yes, most likely it will not come down because of where we live, but I will take extra precautions to make sure that I am away from things that are going to fall on me and away form the roof and the floors above, if I have the time. (And by the way you are as wrong as can be about structurally sound buildings not coming down in Kobe!) They did. I was here in Japan when it happend. I am not wasting anymore time with you. YOU want people to look out for one danger. I want them to look out for both. The two subjects are different. In my opinion, you are the one endangering people with ancient logic. Stop waisting my time. Write your own article about the how great the “Duck and Cover” is, and use your own facts and your own “sic” engineering background to teach people why the “duck and cover” is a good thing. And, oh by the way, Put Your Name On It. Enough said. I wish you peace and happiness, but I am done with responding to someone who is says they know this, and they know that, and no proof given. And saying that you have this experience and that but not giving any proof to substantiate that claim. You will not hear another word from me. Hell, I would love it if you prove me wrong. Go for it.

  • Eric Carroll

    You write a good argument and somewhat condescending as well. But here are the facts. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories at all. But what I do believe in is going the extra mile. Something that your so-called “duck and cover” does not even begin to cover. Go ahead and get squashed. “Childish”? Please do much better. I have been called worse. Let me label you than! “Non-Reader”! Instead of reading what I wrote you just skimmed through it. Hey, I was in the earthquake too! What earthquake were you in? I was able to pick up the dog and get to the front door, which I now know was wrong. You seem to be nitpicking. I had time to get to the door. If I were up north were the earthquake happend I might not have had that time because it was stronger. But if you have time to find a table, you have time to find a place that will protect you from the roof caving in. Get off this “more people were killed by flying objects than were killed by cave ins”. You shouldn’t be there in the first place. Common sense!!!! Your system is protecting yourself from ONE DANGER. My idea is protecting against BOTH DANGERS. No, you didn’t do enough research into KOBE. Nope, because your information that you are spewing is erroneous. I did as I wrote in my initial letter. Hey, I had the cajones to put my name on the article. Why? Because I believe in the research that I did. I had no qualms with using my name at all, because what I was saying was as solid as a rock. You, “Shaken But Not Stirred” used something that is not your name?! Why? You say you are an engineer. How do I know that???????? I could have said the same thing. But I did I used my own name!!!! Because I believed in what I was saying to be common sense. These simply rules will help people.

    1. Get out of a room where things are going to fall on you. (common sense)
    2. Look for a short, densely packed object.
    3. Lie down facing it. (You might be able to control some of it’s movement by applying
    pressure to it. Lie down with your back towards it and it might land or bounce on top of
    you.
    4. That’s it. Eliminate objects from falling on you and from the ceiling and floors above you
    squashing you. Eliminate to the best of your ability both problems.
    5. Don’t be under something. You may just be supporting whatever is above you.

    There is nothing wrong with this advice. Eliminate both dangers. My belief in the system is just using COMMON SENSE. Not evangelical. You too could also be called evangelical because of your insistance to follow an idea that has been taught for so long. Yes, wood is safest, it is flexible. Unfortunately fire does create a problem. I am not arguing that. The reason that those people died was most likely because they were under a desk or a table or caught in a fire in Kobe. None dispute that. Yes, 95% of the people did drowned up north. But that is an extraordinary situation. They were living an extremely short distance from the water. Duh!

    And how hypocritical can YOU be? I am “as desperate as the flat earth society” Are you kidding me???? You are the one following age old doctrine and I am the one saying that the earth is not flat at all. Yikes. You talk about so many people saying the opposite of what I saying. Fine, so be it. I am thinking for myself. You are following. I agreed with the principal because of research and thinking for myself.

    “moving to any place during a serious quake is both difficult and VERY dangerous” This is what you said. But you STILL advise people to get under a table. You can’t have it both ways, man. You can’t. You just said that it is “difficult and very dangerous”! Ah-ha. Who is stepping on their own tongue here? It is not me. That is all you. You can’t have it both ways at all. Make up your mind, which is it?

    Do this. Follow what has been taught to you. Look to take care of one danger. I will be looking out for both dangers. Follow what you have been taught. But I will not be sharing the weight of the building with you. Yes, most likely it will not come down because of where we live, but I will take extra precautions to make sure that I am away from things that are going to fall on me and away form the roof and the floors above, if I have the time. (And by the way you are as wrong as can be about structurally sound buildings not coming down in Kobe!) They did. I was here in Japan when it happend. I am not wasting anymore time with you. YOU want people to look out for one danger. I want them to look out for both. The two subjects are different. In my opinion, you are the one endangering people with ancient logic. Stop waisting my time. Write your own article about the how great the “Duck and Cover” is, and use your own facts and your own “sic” engineering background to teach people why the “duck and cover” is a good thing. And, oh by the way, Put Your Name On It. Enough said. I wish you peace and happiness, but I am done with responding to someone who is says they know this, and they know that, and no proof given. And saying that you have this experience and that but not giving any proof to substantiate that claim. You will not hear another word from me. Hell, I would love it if you prove me wrong. Go for it. The gauntlet has been thrown down.

  • Eric Carroll

    And furthermore, I have a Japanese friend who was actually in Kobe when it struck! And do you know what? His building was new AND IT DID COLLAPSE. He was next to the sofa when it happened. Just by accident. And he lived. So don’t tell people anything because it is dangerous. He actually accredited his survival to the fact that he was next to the couch. The roof came down and didn’t crash on top of him. But the nearest table to him was crushed like a pancake. As far as your advice goes, he should have been under it. As you like to put it. How do you explain that? Please explain it. Because the only thing I hear from you is this and that, and no proof what so ever. You are just repeating what everyone else has. But I have someone who was there and survived. if he had had the chance to follow your advice he would be dead. Squashed like a pancake. Now who is endangering lives? You are.

  • Simon_on_tour

    Gosh, you’ve excelled yourself with that tirade!… I guess you are sensing your argument being lost. I did not set out to be condescending, but it’s hard not to be when faced with such a poor argument and poorly researched facts.

    By the way, here’s another ‘nail’ in your argument. http://earthquakecountry.info/dropcoverholdon/

    Take the time to read it !

    I know, I know… it could just be another article from the same multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, international team of 100’s of thousands of engineers and REAL experts who are under the influence of Blofeld (Bond villain) to ensure we get bad advice, thus crushed in earthquakes LOL!!!

    Or… maybe, it is the multi-ethnic, multi-cultural, international team of 100’s of thousands of engineers and REAL experts , armed with countless bits of data, evidence and facts, who are actually trying to give us the best advice to protect us.

    Since almost no buildings collapsed at all, in a population of millions, in one of the biggest quakes on record… I am inclined to think that these people are doing right by us.

    In conclusion… feel free to accuse me of what you wish… it is irrelevant. Unless the readers of this post are desperately seeking a new cult to join, or have grown tired of denying the moon landings and are in search of a new cause to follow… I think my work here is done by providing the necessary balance to your poor advice, however well-intentioned I am sure it was.

    PS – I don’t beleive your last post, ref Kobe story, for one second! Now you’ve totally lost the last tiny shred of respect I had left for your argument!

  • Eric Carroll

    My argument is not lost. You have not proven anything at all. Just because that website says this and that? So, what! I am a evangelical and my friend is a liar. Pssst, were you in Kobe? I don’t refute all of the advice on the website by your so-called experts. Only the part where they tell you to get under a table. Lost your respect! Awwwwww! Here is a secret. Don’t really care. You keep talking about protecting oneself from one danger. I am talking about both dangers. That group that you call experts have put half truths up there on the triangle of life. I feel like I am talking to a wall. No, my argument is not lost. You having an ear to listen is. Debating with you is endless. You keep saying the same thing and ignoring common sense. Make your own article.

  • Eric Carroll

    Here Simon. GO to this website. http://www.amerrescue.org/ Seems to be lots of experts there. Lots of information to be read. Go to you Tube and type in Doug Copp’s name and see what you find. Watch the videos and read what is on the website. Much more information can be found there.

  • Eric Carroll

    Oh, here is another bit of evidence to support my friend’s claim that you don’t believe. The Daikai Station did collapse. Here is the page on it unless you don’t believe Wikipedia either and they are lying about a collapsed building. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daikai_Station LMFAO. So, let me get this right. The station collapsed but what my friend said was a lie?

  • Eric Carroll
  • Eric Carroll

    Oh and here are some other facts to look over. The causes of death in Kobe are as follows:
    Collapse of buildings 4,816.
    Fire 570
    Highways 17
    Land Slides 11
    Overturned furniture 65

    Now, I know you just jumped out of your chair when you saw “overturned furniture” but,

    “Approximately 1.2% of the total were killed by overturned furniture; in Japanese apartments or houses space is limited and sometimes people have to put heavy household objects such as TV sets in high places that could potentially drop and injure or sometimes even kill people.
    That was written by an expert. I copied and pasted it. NOTE: He said “TVs”!

    What did I say before? What did I say before? What did I say before? You must eliminate that danger!

    Of course if you have things up high, you are going to get hurt or killed so take everything that is up high and put it down, than there is no danger. If this is impossible, one can easily go to the local Home Center and pick up latches that will prevent doors from opening and spilling out their contents, bars that can be place on the top of cabinets that run to the ceiling and can be properly adjusted to the right amount of tension needed to keep the cabinet from falling down.

    Yes, most of the building that fell in Kobe were constructed by wood. But here is the problem: The roofes were too heavy and the wood could not support their weight. Since their last major earthquake was more than 500 years ago, they were not really thinking about the dangers. But there were concrete buildings that collapsed. Many people got into trouble for shoddy, cost cutting construction. This scandal is well known to people who were here in 1995, as I myself was. People went to jail for it.

    Now, I know you must live in a very new building because you have so much faith in this system of construction. Great for you. But can you be sure that corners weren’t cut when yours was built? Were you there? Also, not everyone lives and works in buildings that are state of the art. You are not talking about everyone. Go outside and look at how many homes, buildings and business’ were constructed before construction codes changed.

    My argument is far from lost!!!

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  • Eric Carroll

    Simon_on_tour What happened to you? Did I give too much dam
    aging info to your argument that you thought it would be better to be silent ion such an important issue? Talking down to me the whole time. Why run like a coward? I noticed that after I provided all the info that you conveniently got silent. You call my friend a liar? But do not provided any proof at all. You really didn’t like me being able to provide so much evidence to debunk you, did you? Come on, man. Take it on the chin. Be a real man!!! Stand up and admit you were wrong or at least have the courage to debunk me. If I am so wrong than you should do exactly that to help and protect people instead of saying my ad
    vice is cult like and then just disconnecting on
    people. As far as anyone can see
    now is, the kick is up. AND IT IS GOOD. Dude you have to do way better than what you did to prove a point. You say my advise is dangerous. Really? Than show how I am wrong. Isn’t that what you intended? Stop going to ONE agency. Prove your theory. I will happily say I am wrong if you can prove it but do not be a wuss who starts an argument and then runs away. That is chicken.
    Why push so much? Because I CARE.

  • Eric Carroll

    You hiding says, YOU DON’T.

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